automateable container

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whitelight's picture
Joined: June 3, 2010

I thought a little bit about my favorite theme triggering things in mulch and make mulch a little easier and faster in the musical process. God thanks there appear two pieces of a possible solution: The container for sub-patches and the way you can program the synth twin2 (from fabfilter) combined with patterns. (no midi used)

My idea was to have a window in the patcher to contain a subpatch, which can be fold or unfold, which have (unfold) two touch-points within the frame (something like mulchs 8x8 mixer) at the top and the same again at the bottom,
and it keeps at least one musical phrase with the help of internally automation.

The window (fold) is a “8x8 mixer”. You can´t see the inside.

Now, how to program? There are patterns in the property-window of the container to control movements of the knobs and sliders in the sub-patch-contraptions like the normal automation.
It comes to twin2. Here are envelopes and LFOs, which can be assign to the main knobs or within each others knobs to make together complex movements.
In the mulch container you could assign 4 LFOs, 4simple plus 4 bigger envelopes to the wanted knob. Within these, too.(example: right-click +“automate with container”+3.LFO instead of just right-click+“automate”)
The envelopes are the patternbased ones. The LFOs run freely, if they should do.

To internally automate the snapshots of a sub-patch-contraption there have to be a tiny flag-automation in the container-property-window.(this automation must not be as precise as the others )

-the container has its own snapshots
-one field in the property-window allows you to automate, when the sequence and the contraptions should start to play and loop if you want. A normal on/of- automation(flags with cross)
-all can be automated normally, the contraptions and their container.
-the 8x8 mixer (bottom) is replaceable by any mixer ,or a patch with a mixer can be embedded
-The simple ASR V1V2V3V4(attack/sustain/release)envelopes have four “velocity”-stages which define the sustain-level. You push the patternfield 3times,(it gets light-green to grass-green to bluegreen)to get a trigger and velocity-stage 3!
The bigger ADSHR-L-(ADS/Hold/R-----Level) have a trigger-pattern and a ties-pattern.
-The ADR-velocities are normal knobs (again: they could be automated)

I think its better and more mulch than the midi-southpole

Ross B.
Ross B.'s picture
Joined: April 11, 2009

Interesting idea.

I don't really understand what you mean by this bit though:

which have (unfold) two touch-points within the frame (something like mulchs 8x8 mixer) at the top and the same again at the bottom,


whitelight's picture
Joined: June 3, 2010

I finally can write back....
It´s hard to describe without a picture

I mean, if you have a patch in the container, it has to be connected to the rest of the patch. I thought of something like the gates of an old city within it´s citywall.
There are only two gates in this city, one in the north (for input) and a southern gate (for output). These can be seen (in whole) when the container is opened. Then each the northgate and the southgate looks like the mulchs 8x8 mixer. They are embedded in the container-frame like the gates lying in the citywall.
Therefore the gates could be exchange by every other mixer or bus and by an existing one , too. With a look at the northern gate this exchange makes only sense when you use a stereo gain or so (or there is a existing one), but the southgate could mix the subpatch-contraptions together.

-When you collapse the container you can see one contraption (with the
container-inputs of the northgate and the container-outputs of the southgate)

-The preset of 8 connections per gate is usefull, because of more guided traffic.
This devision allows surround or complex patching (internally interaction in the container of more than one partner or sidechain, which are outside the container).

Is that better to understand?

Corrections and reasons of the last post____________
-The ASR-envelopes are more Attack Hold Release- envelopes, because they have no tie-patterns and the Hold is controllable by other envelopes or LFOs (So you can use them in a different way than the big envelopes)
- I called these envelopes in the last post also ADR (next to "velocities"). This was wrong (AHR right)
-The AHR envelopes are for dubstep things, where the LFO frequency differs with discret amounts (the four velocity-stages can do this).
But mayby it is possible to make difficult movements for other automation ,too ,when used in combination with their pattern or with Velocity-stage variations (not over their pattern but by automating the amount of each stage within their AHR V V V V-knobs-controll.
Mayby the envelopes shall not hit zero with their Release, and beginn flexible with the ammount that was reached by the last envelope at this point.
Or mulch should use loopable complex envelopes

a page of existing connections in the container-properties would be helpful (if there is no copywrite to fabfilter)

Ross B.
Ross B.'s picture
Joined: April 11, 2009

Maybe something like this:

You can click on that image to show the other state.

I'm thinking perhaps for the closed view you just double click to open it.

What do you think?


paradiddle's picture
Joined: June 24, 2009

This would be awesome Ross!

I would be nice if we could add buttons, dials and sliders ect linked to parameters inside the subpatches with the range that you want to affect.

whitelight's picture
Joined: June 3, 2010

to paradiddle: do you want to use the containersliders for change the subpatch´s sound like a DJ? This would be nice, too, if you could link these sliders again with the metasurfase, so I could even control LFO´s and (automation-)envelopes with metasurfase.
But I want to have a looped re-automation for programming fast and experimenting with the patterns and knobs.

to ross: +The windows outputs are clear to be seen. Eventually you coulor every four output(-pairs) in gray, so that you don´t have to count them.
+the symbol to enlarge/close the window is clear, double click is reserved for re-naming and that is similar to windows
+The name of the container has a good position (but,)
- I miss the inputs of the container. These were important, if you want to insert a sidechain to modulate the inner components
or ,less important, if you only want to hide a part of a whole patch(e.g. some effect-chains),
or if you want to control some contraptions with LFO´s and pattern´s(this container mustn´t be closed)

Maybe it´s good to have containers for some different usage
Additionally one "contraption" for global LFOs (outside the normal containers), that is hanging on the soundout as a little flag (named: "LFOs")

One envelope- solution I have found, which is perfect for complex movements on it´s own, is an ADSR(R2), -double release.
It has three definitions for every part of it. For example the attack has an end-level (positive or negative) a length and
a shape (exponential /logarithmical/ s(sinus?)/ and straight)
(copyright (?) at for synth "Helix" )