it looks like there is very few activity around Audiomulch lately.
This is worrying me as i hope this platform to develop further ( think 64 bits, multicore, some stereo contraptions...)
I am afraid this quietness could make Ross feel a lack of interest in improving Audiomulch, so I just want to make him feel i still trust Audiomulch being a unique and impossible to substitute concept in music software that is worth to let grow in its potential.
hope you agree
I posted something very similar fairly recently, but still no news...
Ross's last info in this thread:
I am worrying about him and the future of AM.
It's a shame, really, that such a beautiful and well-crafted program seems to be dying a slow death. I still can't find any suitable replacement... Bidule is too low-level, Usine is too confusing, AM is just perfect.
I don't think there's anything to worry about. If you read what Ross said in that last thread I linked to, he makes it pretty clear that although AM is not really making him much money these days, and as such he'll probably devote less time to it, he still intends to keep supporting it indefinitley. That's good enough for me! So, there's a reason things have slowed down, but it's nothing to get worried about.
actually I am worrying about it.
Using a system as a live interface means you keep adding new presets, tweaks, testing new solutions and all this is making the set up increase its complexity and contents.
I am squeezing AM and really feel the need to benefit from the 64 bits and multicore improvements to give room to these ideas without keeping the system hitting the ceiling with the relative weaknesses this is causing.
Many years ago I chose Audiomulch over Usine and Bidule and I am happy about this choice but, in the meantime, the development of these other two platforms has gone well beyond to the point AM has done.
I don't want to keep building on a system that doesn't develop, this means the more I wait an evolution that doesn't come the more I will have to work to reproduce my setup in another system.
I am sorry about this, but this is the vision from my point of view.
I hope Ross will bring some light on this and excuse me if I have been disturbing his silence.
No probs! If I were you and that worried, I'd drop Ross an email directly though!
I wouldn't have posted about this here if I hadn't done what you suggest first.
I posted Ross directly on Feb the 2, 2014 and haven't got any reply yet.
I hope AudioMulch development is continued, even if at a slower pace. It really is unique!
That said, it took me a couple times of demo-ing AM over the years to before I really "got it" (and bought it). In this day and age, $189 is a lot to charge for a 32-bit program that doesn't have ReWire, MIDI sequencing, song arrangement capabilities, or a stereo drum machine.
I wonder if Ross has ever considered doing a plugin version - I have no idea of the logistics involved, but if Bidule (and older modular hosts/VSTs like VAZ and Energy XT v.1) can do it, that would be a way of getting AM to "play nice" with other DAWs. Also I'm kind of surprised he never came out with some sort of MetaSurface Android/iOS app -- either as a controller, or a standalone instrument.
Also I think there's something seriously wrong with the current AM forum software -- despite many attempts, I have not found a consistent way to manage thread subscriptions in a predictable manner, and the amount of spam in the last year is worrisome. IMO if he plans to keep developing AM it would make more sense to move the forum to KVR -- it would take care of logistics and probably raise AM's profile.
These are not criticisms, just observations on factors that limit AM's appeal to the uninitiated. I love AudioMulch and have nothing but the highest respect for Ross' achievements and skills as a developer. As I take baby steps toward learning audio DSP I see his works cited in many classic publications.
I fully agree, Winstontaneous.
My £0.02. I trialled AudioMulch last year (I think) after having heard a lot about it. I build a lot of stuff in Reaktor and was interested in using those instruments in Mulch, combined with its gadgets and Metasurface, rather than in Live. I saw a lot that I liked but...
It really concerned me that development seemed to have dwindled to a trickle of bug-fixes and particularly worrisome that the author seemed to be MIA in his own community.
At $50-$75 I'd have taken a chance on it and lived with the possibility it would continue to be only intermittently supported and still feel I'd be getting value. But at $189 I need something where I feel like the team is investing as much as I am. That's not meant as a criticism, I've read Ross' message and can understand the pain and dilemma, just explaining why I passed.
Unfortunately I suspect this leads to a bit of a viscious cycle that reinforces Ross' decision to put his attention elsewhere. Guys gotta eat! I still look in on Mulch from time to time and I hope maybe when v3.0 comes out the algebra will look a little different.
I would consider support AM as best as I can, even with donation if that could help Ross to make some dcisive steps in its evolution.
I would be happier to spend some money for this reason than lots of time for learning a new application and recreate all my patches there.
I still feel AM is the best environment for me and would really love to keep using it.
I agree with much of what has been said in that I feel that the price needs to be adjusted to reflect current comparative 'platform' features and development perspectives. It may be worth $189 objectively speaking if you are willing to commit to it, but it just doesn't stand up well in the shop next to software that has been kept more current, even less so when it's unclear how much development will be going into it (or how fast), and this puts potential customers off. Bidule is less than $100 and supports many formats plus has plugin versions of itself. Cantabile is $49 for a basic version and $140 for the full Performer version and offers a lot of high-end performance oriented features (i.e. both the stage and horsepower performance). I feel at $100-$120 or so AM would be much more attractive in spite of certain comparative shortcomings or uncertainties. Maybe a "30% off until 3.0" sale?
I also agree that one of the unique features of AM these days is the metasurface / preset management. If just that plus some mixers/gainers and the looper could be made for 64bit and/or packed as a VST metahost it would already be a very appealing product. That's where it's above and beyond any other host out there and that's what really stands out, even today.
Anyway, here's hoping.
I would like to buy audiomulch this year, I really love the concept and it fits with my workflow just perfect. But no 64 bits and no multicore is putting me back, I'm waiting and it is starting to be a pain. A little price lowering wouldn't hurt in my opinion, but I understand if Ross B. doesnt like the idea at all.
I hope we see news soon about this wonderful program, even if 64 bit doesn't come I think I will buy it anyway, it is just a little pain install the 32 bits versions of my plugins now that my system is all 64 but I really want to support AM soon.
I don´t know, why others don´t buy Audiomulch. AM is more inspiring than a linear sequencer. But the kind of music, you can make OR how you can make it, is very limited. The bassline made my melodies or I had tried the 10Harmonics to do this job. The (controllable) soundrange is not wide. Atmospheric things are not a problem. I can´t play an instrument, so I had to use samples. Samples are very unflexible. Software- or Hardwaresynthesizers are better. Why no own midi, embedded in a system, that has an improved workflow. To be a living instrument AM needs a global scale. To structure your song in Intro, Verse, Refrain the automation system had to be loopable. To define a tone there is more possible than a softwaresynthesizer.
To use a tablet PC as a surface for audiomulch must be great, but to get into the depths of music I need an improved AM on my PC!!!!!
To the last point: Gragg Gills (Girl Talk), Or a man (on You Tube)playing a guitar make a lot out of it in AM, aren´t within my reach. Gragg is satisfied with AM1, the man with the guitar has yet good sounding effects in AM or VSTs. Technical features make AM not faster(workflow) or more musical, neither on PC nor on tablet.
I know that it has been too long. I'm sorry. Thanks to everyone who posted here or emailed me privately. I appreciate the support. I also very much appreciate the supportive tone of the feedback in this thread.
When I have clear plans I'll post a "status update" thread, but for now I'd just like respond to some of the points you've made.
IMPORTANT: all of my comments in this thread are for the sake of discussion and do not represent any commitment about features for version 2.3 or 3.0. In particular I want to be able to talk openly about possible futures without people taking this as a promise or guarantee. Right now, beyond what has previously been announced, I am not presenting any plan about what will happen next.
To people worrying about the future of AM, I still consider my previous post about the future of AM to be accurate: http://www.audiomulch.com/forums/support-help-and-ideas/update-soon
That said, as you can guess from the long time since my last post, it is taking a while for me to get back on my feet. Things are improving here. But business and market conditions have radically changed since the era of AudioMulch 2.0 in 2009-2010 and it is not clear what comes next.
To Unguitar and people who need AudioMulch to "evolve": I can't promise "AudioMulch the evolving experience." AudioMulch is offered "as is." I've always encouraged people to buy and use AudioMulch for what it does now. Of course I am keen to receive feedback, and I try to take it into account. Since late 2012 the priority has been with keeping AudioMulch stable (i.e. fixing bugs) and keeping things afloat. Since early 2013 I have also been prioritising research for new features.
The forum spam situation is a problem. About 50-100 spams *per day* are being filtered out by the captcha software. A few are getting through and need to be manually deleted and fake accounts canceled, etc. I am going to look into hiring someone to take care of this on a regular basis.
To Winstontaneous and anyone else having specific problems with the forum software: The site was updated to a new version of Drupal a while back and I agree that things have not been quite right since then. I hope to be able to hire someone to do maintenance on the forum software soon. It would be great if you could post any forum bugs as a separate post in the forum admin section ( http://www.audiomulch.com/forums/website-and-forums ) -- that will make it easier to track them down when the time comes.
As far as a possible migration to KVR forums goes: I have a lot of respect and admiration for Ben and the folks at KVR, but I don't see the KVR population as the only market for AudioMulch and so I don't want to associate AudioMulch specifically with KVR by moving the forums there.
I recognise that 64-bit support has transitioned from "going to be needed in the future" to "must have." The complexity of making the transition is unknown. Maybe the update will be easy, or maybe it will be a major pain to get everything working correctly. I would love to put it off until 3.0, but it seems as though users consider it a high priority -- so I am very seriously considering it for the next update.
As discussed previously on these forums, multi-core scheduling is difficult to get right for an arbitrary-graph system like AudioMulch. I am keen to have an automatic multi-core engine where users don't have to assign contraptions to cores. One of the main reasons that I've been MIA is that I've been deep down a rabbit hole studying and designing multi-core algorithms. This started about a year and a half ago, it's only now that things are starting to crystalize. I'm nowhere near releasing anything, but I think that I am close to having a plan of attack.
Thanks for the feedback on price. I am considering some options. We are now living in a world where Logic, previously $1500 is $199. It's a dramatic change. Meanwhile, the cost of living here in Melbourne, Australia, has gone up a lot. I have half-seriously considered moving to another country where it is cheaper to live. That said, I also have customers for whom $189 is cheap.
I have been considering moving to a split price model with a cheaper stripped-down version and a full feature version at around the current price. One possibility might be having a single-core stereo-only version and a full-feature multi-channel version (which would include e.g. multi-core when that becomes available). Is stereo-only audio enough for some people? In any case, this is just one idea for a feature split. I'd be interested to hear what people think (especially those holding back on buying).
MIDI sequencing, Rewire etc.
To people whose concern is that AudioMulch is limited because it doesn't have MIDI sequencing, "song structuring" or integration with DAWs through Rewire etc. There are many posts in these forums where I have stated that MIDI sequencing is out of scope. The focus of AudioMulch is non-linear live performance audio synthesis and processing. I don't consider MIDI sequencing or Rewire as must-have features for this context. There are much better tools out there if you want to do that.
Radical new directions (Mobile Apps, Plug-ins)
This is a time of consolidation, not of taking new risks. The previous big shift from Windows-only to cross-platform (Windows and Mac OS) was incredibly costly and time consuming. The hangover is ongoing. Personally Im unsure that the benefits outweighed the costs -- Mac OS X has become a closed and un-mulchworthy platform. Perhaps you guys don't see it, but developing a long term product vision on platforms where the goal posts are constantly shifting is a losing game. I didn't get in to making AudioMulch so I could spend my days running on Apple's treadmill -- the goal was, and still is, to make accessible, unique and useful software. With this in mind I'm cautious about taking further risks with third-party platforms that have similar dynamics (e.g. plugins, mobile apps). Of course I am constantly considering possibilities, but at this time I don't consider plug-ins or mobile to be likely directions.
Thanks for all the updates, Ross! So happy to see you back here finally.
Just a few personal notes: 64bit not a neccesity for me at all, but I know many people conisder it important. Multicore support, on the other hand, would be very welcome, as it would extend the longevity of Mulch on any given multicore system. As someone who only upgrades their PC every ten years, it's important as time goes on to be able to maximise its CPU. The price is fine for me, as Mulch is paying for itself multiple times every week! I would still dearly LOVE the bassline and arpegiattor etc., to spit out MIDI notes, but am aware this is totally not a priorty, and never has been, (how long have people been asking for this? Since the Yahoo Group back in the 90's, haha! And your answer has always been the same, which I totally respect). Radical new directions, Mac compatibilty etc., totally not a concern for me. I would much rather you spent your time and money on honing the PC version.
Just my take on it from a very happy and loyal professional user.
Gregg, Hermetech Mastering, Milan
Ross, If I would not like the name, appearance, modular concept, great modules of Audiomulch, its air (want say flair), I would change my audioprogramm. I would tell others my ideas, if that were possible(they require the things, only mulch has). Sequencing is not your dream!
Now: Tell me, what you want to know or discuss to help you with your visions. Most of my ideas are helpful for both ,live and sequencing. eg multichannel: 1.contraptions, that make one chain out of multiple chains, like mixers, but don´t mix them.2. Mono contraptions process that chain as multiple, but graphically it is one chain input one chain output. 3. contraptions that split the multiple chain OR something like that.
64bit: only to be able to run VSTs that are not available in 34bit, low priority.
multicore: I am keen on having other things
forum: there was no security question to save my last post
Price: AM is no toy, most of my VSTs (!) have a similar price and for me it´s worthy its price. But I think, to date, it has strong competitors. I am satisfied with only stereo output for CD, but "live" surround were great, someday...
MIDI: it´s not your vision
P.S.The Automated container was meant with song structure. I think, it´s not a bad idea for live usability and I have tiny suggestions for it.
Want to discuss, tell your ideas ,Ross, and where you have none,
Dear Ross, thank you so much for having posted such a clear, transparent and fair reply. Sorry for taking so long to send my appreciation for receiving such a strong sign of interest from you.
I have just finished a set of 4 consecutive gigs with AM proving to be the ideal platform for managing a live set based on real time processing and creative routing of vsts and hardware processors.
I am doing a pit-stop in the hospital right now but wanted to send you my appreciation for learning that AM you still consider AM on evolution.
I am at your disposal for any help I may give you.